Team3S

Re: Supercharging a NA DOHC

Wed, 10 Mar 2010 21:56:00 GMT

At least you seem wise enough to have considered that you were coloring outside the lines. Some very creative and imaginative folks do not even recognize the lines, and that's where the danger lies. Congratulations on your ingenuity and perserverence! If you happen to have some objective data, such as a time slip from a drag strip, I'm sure the folks on this list would be even more impressed with your result! I am curious to know how the speed of your supercharger is modulated, whether by a mechanical belt drive or an electrical signal. Chuck Willis -----Original Message----- From: Murray Bruns [<a href="mailto:murraybruns@yahoo.com">mailto:murraybruns@yahoo.com</a>] Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 3:48 PM To: Willis,Charles E Subject: [Team3S] Re: Supercharging a NA DOHC Pete, I found in my queries back in October of 2009 most folks overwhelming favored turbos to the point that it impared their imagination and thought processes.  Had most folks not been so vehemently opposed to supercharging I may have not pursued it.  Because of this overwhelming prejudice towards supercharging I decided to make it my quest to prove those nay sayers wrong.  Besides, I wanted to do something different and create something unique,not just be another turbo owner.  Supercharing has been done for decades.  whether big hp applications or small.  I saw nothing impossible about this task so I decided to do it.  All it took was a "can do attitude" some imaginaion, and a little reseach.  Many TeamS3 folks need to try thinking "Outside the Box" where they will discover there is more than one way to skin a cat.. >>>Murray              ----- Original Message ---- From: "Rivenburg, Pete" <<a href="mailto:privenburg@firstam.com>">privenburg@firstam.com&gt</a>; To: <a href="mailto:murraybruns@yahoo.com">murraybruns@yahoo.com</a> Sent: Wed, March 10, 2010 4:12:17 PM Subject: [Team3S] Re: Supercharging a NA DOHC Let us all know how it works out, this has been a hot button subject here over the years with a lot of heat & very little light for us NA drivers. The consensus here has been that it's not worth the money, cheaper to buy a VR4. Id like to see some different input since I own a 93 NA DOHC. This group IS really technical though and a GREAT resource, without this list my NA would have gone south LONG ago. Pete Rivenburg <a href="mailto:Privenburg@firstam.com">Privenburg@firstam.com</a> -----Original Message----- From: Murray Bruns [<a href="mailto:murraybruns@yahoo.com">mailto:murraybruns@yahoo.com</a>] Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 1:58 PM To: Rivenburg, Pete Subject: [Team3S] Re: Supercharging a NA DOHC Thanks Pete,   FMU and ECU will be adjusted accordingly. >>>Murray  ----- Original Message ---- From: "Rivenburg, Pete" <<a href="mailto:privenburg@firstam.com>">privenburg@firstam.com&gt</a>; To: <a href="mailto:murraybruns@yahoo.com">murraybruns@yahoo.com</a> Sent: Wed, March 10, 2010 3:41:23 PM Subject: [Team3S] Re: Supercharging a NA DOHC When you put the new headers on Murray, You should get it made with bungs for EGT sensors (Exhaust Gas Temperature) on both sides, get the EGT setup with built in ignition cutoff. You CANT go wrong that way & fry your engine. $300 to protect $6000. Headers tend to lean out fuel mix. EGT sensors don't care WHY it went lean (too hot) they just shut it down right now before the damage is done. Tweak A/F & run again. Pete Rivenburg <a href="mailto:Privenburg@firstam.com">Privenburg@firstam.com</a> -----Original Message----- From: Murray Bruns [<a href="mailto:murraybruns@yahoo.com">mailto:murraybruns@yahoo.com</a>] Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 1:17 PM To: Rivenburg, Pete Subject: [Team3S] Re: Supercharging a NA DOHC Matt, I have research fuel ratios to great length for supercharged applications such as mine and according to the engineers I'm in the sweet spot for a non racing application.  Maybe for turbos running under a racing condition 8;1 is correct I don't know but from what I've read in the last few hours 8:1 is extremetly rich. My motor pulls very very hard, doesn't miss a beat, no black smoke, no unusual engine temps.  I'm totally satisfied that A/Fs are correct for my usage. BTW - running 6 pounds of  boost on a 10:1 compression ratio engine  has an effective boost rate of 10 pounds of boost on a 8:1 engine like that found on a VR4  Appreciate your input. >>>Murray 94 3000GT SL Supercharged        ----- Original Message ---- From: Matt Jannusch <<a href="mailto:mjannusch@gmail.com>">mjannusch@gmail.com&gt</a>; To: <a href="mailto:murraybruns@yahoo.com">murraybruns@yahoo.com</a> Sent: Wed, March 10, 2010 2:32:42 PM Subject: [Team3S] Re: Supercharging a NA DOHC > If stoich is considered a f/a ratio of 12.5 and 14.5,  I would say that under > acceleration I run around little less than 12 and cruise a little below 14. > Obviously the A/F is changing constantly but I would say those numbers > are fairly representative. The definition of stoichiometric for gasoline is 14.7:1.  You should be around there during light load cruise, and around 11.5-11.8:1 while under heavy load (boost). -Matt '95 3000GT Spyder VR4 '93 3000GT VR4

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Re: Supercharging a NA DOHC

Wed, 10 Mar 2010 21:48:00 GMT

Pete, I found in my queries back in October of 2009 most folks overwhelming favored turbos to the point that it impared their imagination and thought processes.  Had most folks not been so vehemently opposed to supercharging I may have not pursued it.  Because of this overwhelming prejudice towards supercharging I decided to make it my quest to prove those nay sayers wrong.  Besides, I wanted to do something different and create something unique,not just be another turbo owner.  Supercharing has been done for decades.  whether big hp applications or small.  I saw nothing impossible about this task so I decided to do it.  All it took was a "can do attitude" some imaginaion, and a little reseach.  Many TeamS3 folks need to try thinking "Outside the Box" where they will discover there is more than one way to skin a cat.. >>>Murray              ----- Original Message ---- From: "Rivenburg, Pete" <<a href="mailto:privenburg@firstam.com>">privenburg@firstam.com&gt</a>; To: <a href="mailto:murraybruns@yahoo.com">murraybruns@yahoo.com</a> Sent: Wed, March 10, 2010 4:12:17 PM Subject: [Team3S] Re: Supercharging a NA DOHC Let us all know how it works out, this has been a hot button subject here over the years with a lot of heat & very little light for us NA drivers. The consensus here has been that it's not worth the money, cheaper to buy a VR4. Id like to see some different input since I own a 93 NA DOHC. This group IS really technical though and a GREAT resource, without this list my NA would have gone south LONG ago. Pete Rivenburg <a href="mailto:Privenburg@firstam.com">Privenburg@firstam.com</a> -----Original Message----- From: Murray Bruns [<a href="mailto:murraybruns@yahoo.com">mailto:murraybruns@yahoo.com</a>] Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 1:58 PM To: Rivenburg, Pete Subject: [Team3S] Re: Supercharging a NA DOHC Thanks Pete,   FMU and ECU will be adjusted accordingly. >>>Murray  ----- Original Message ---- From: "Rivenburg, Pete" <<a href="mailto:privenburg@firstam.com>">privenburg@firstam.com&gt</a>; To: <a href="mailto:murraybruns@yahoo.com">murraybruns@yahoo.com</a> Sent: Wed, March 10, 2010 3:41:23 PM Subject: [Team3S] Re: Supercharging a NA DOHC When you put the new headers on Murray, You should get it made with bungs for EGT sensors (Exhaust Gas Temperature) on both sides, get the EGT setup with built in ignition cutoff. You CANT go wrong that way & fry your engine. $300 to protect $6000. Headers tend to lean out fuel mix. EGT sensors don't care WHY it went lean (too hot) they just shut it down right now before the damage is done. Tweak A/F & run again. Pete Rivenburg <a href="mailto:Privenburg@firstam.com">Privenburg@firstam.com</a> -----Original Message----- From: Murray Bruns [<a href="mailto:murraybruns@yahoo.com">mailto:murraybruns@yahoo.com</a>] Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 1:17 PM To: Rivenburg, Pete Subject: [Team3S] Re: Supercharging a NA DOHC Matt, I have research fuel ratios to great length for supercharged applications such as mine and according to the engineers I'm in the sweet spot for a non racing application.  Maybe for turbos running under a racing condition 8;1 is correct I don't know but from what I've read in the last few hours 8:1 is extremetly rich. My motor pulls very very hard, doesn't miss a beat, no black smoke, no unusual engine temps.  I'm totally satisfied that A/Fs are correct for my usage. BTW - running 6 pounds of  boost on a 10:1 compression ratio engine  has an effective boost rate of 10 pounds of boost on a 8:1 engine like that found on a VR4  Appreciate your input. >>>Murray 94 3000GT SL Supercharged        ----- Original Message ---- From: Matt Jannusch <<a href="mailto:mjannusch@gmail.com>">mjannusch@gmail.com&gt</a>; To: <a href="mailto:murraybruns@yahoo.com">murraybruns@yahoo.com</a> Sent: Wed, March 10, 2010 2:32:42 PM Subject: [Team3S] Re: Supercharging a NA DOHC > If stoich is considered a f/a ratio of 12.5 and 14.5,  I would say that under > acceleration I run around little less than 12 and cruise a little below 14. > Obviously the A/F is changing constantly but I would say those numbers > are fairly representative. The definition of stoichiometric for gasoline is 14.7:1.  You should be around there during light load cruise, and around 11.5-11.8:1 while under heavy load (boost). -Matt '95 3000GT Spyder VR4 '93 3000GT VR4

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Re: Supercharging a NA DOHC

Wed, 10 Mar 2010 21:13:00 GMT

Let us all know how it works out, this has been a hot button subject here over the years with a lot of heat & very little light for us NA drivers. The consensus here has been that it's not worth the money, cheaper to buy a VR4. Id like to see some different input since I own a 93 NA DOHC. This group IS really technical though and a GREAT resource, without this list my NA would have gone south LONG ago. Pete Rivenburg <a href="mailto:Privenburg@firstam.com">Privenburg@firstam.com</a> -----Original Message----- From: Murray Bruns [<a href="mailto:murraybruns@yahoo.com">mailto:murraybruns@yahoo.com</a>] Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 1:58 PM To: Rivenburg, Pete Subject: [Team3S] Re: Supercharging a NA DOHC Thanks Pete,   FMU and ECU will be adjusted accordingly. >>>Murray  ----- Original Message ---- From: "Rivenburg, Pete" <<a href="mailto:privenburg@firstam.com>">privenburg@firstam.com&gt</a>; To: <a href="mailto:murraybruns@yahoo.com">murraybruns@yahoo.com</a> Sent: Wed, March 10, 2010 3:41:23 PM Subject: [Team3S] Re: Supercharging a NA DOHC When you put the new headers on Murray, You should get it made with bungs for EGT sensors (Exhaust Gas Temperature) on both sides, get the EGT setup with built in ignition cutoff. You CANT go wrong that way & fry your engine. $300 to protect $6000. Headers tend to lean out fuel mix. EGT sensors don't care WHY it went lean (too hot) they just shut it down right now before the damage is done. Tweak A/F & run again. Pete Rivenburg <a href="mailto:Privenburg@firstam.com">Privenburg@firstam.com</a> -----Original Message----- From: Murray Bruns [<a href="mailto:murraybruns@yahoo.com">mailto:murraybruns@yahoo.com</a>] Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 1:17 PM To: Rivenburg, Pete Subject: [Team3S] Re: Supercharging a NA DOHC Matt, I have research fuel ratios to great length for supercharged applications such as mine and according to the engineers I'm in the sweet spot for a non racing application.  Maybe for turbos running under a racing condition 8;1 is correct I don't know but from what I've read in the last few hours 8:1 is extremetly rich. My motor pulls very very hard, doesn't miss a beat, no black smoke, no unusual engine temps.  I'm totally satisfied that A/Fs are correct for my usage. BTW - running 6 pounds of  boost on a 10:1 compression ratio engine  has an effective boost rate of 10 pounds of boost on a 8:1 engine like that found on a VR4  Appreciate your input. >>>Murray 94 3000GT SL Supercharged        ----- Original Message ---- From: Matt Jannusch <<a href="mailto:mjannusch@gmail.com>">mjannusch@gmail.com&gt</a>; To: <a href="mailto:murraybruns@yahoo.com">murraybruns@yahoo.com</a> Sent: Wed, March 10, 2010 2:32:42 PM Subject: [Team3S] Re: Supercharging a NA DOHC > If stoich is considered a f/a ratio of 12.5 and 14.5,  I would say that under > acceleration I run around little less than 12 and cruise a little below 14. > Obviously the A/F is changing constantly but I would say those numbers > are fairly representative. The definition of stoichiometric for gasoline is 14.7:1.  You should be around there during light load cruise, and around 11.5-11.8:1 while under heavy load (boost). -Matt '95 3000GT Spyder VR4 '93 3000GT VR4

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Re: Supercharging a NA DOHC

Wed, 10 Mar 2010 20:59:00 GMT

Thanks Pete,   FMU and ECU will be adjusted accordingly. >>>Murray  ----- Original Message ---- From: "Rivenburg, Pete" <<a href="mailto:privenburg@firstam.com>">privenburg@firstam.com&gt</a>; To: <a href="mailto:murraybruns@yahoo.com">murraybruns@yahoo.com</a> Sent: Wed, March 10, 2010 3:41:23 PM Subject: [Team3S] Re: Supercharging a NA DOHC When you put the new headers on Murray, You should get it made with bungs for EGT sensors (Exhaust Gas Temperature) on both sides, get the EGT setup with built in ignition cutoff. You CANT go wrong that way & fry your engine. $300 to protect $6000. Headers tend to lean out fuel mix. EGT sensors don't care WHY it went lean (too hot) they just shut it down right now before the damage is done. Tweak A/F & run again. Pete Rivenburg <a href="mailto:Privenburg@firstam.com">Privenburg@firstam.com</a> -----Original Message----- From: Murray Bruns [<a href="mailto:murraybruns@yahoo.com">mailto:murraybruns@yahoo.com</a>] Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 1:17 PM To: Rivenburg, Pete Subject: [Team3S] Re: Supercharging a NA DOHC Matt, I have research fuel ratios to great length for supercharged applications such as mine and according to the engineers I'm in the sweet spot for a non racing application.  Maybe for turbos running under a racing condition 8;1 is correct I don't know but from what I've read in the last few hours 8:1 is extremetly rich. My motor pulls very very hard, doesn't miss a beat, no black smoke, no unusual engine temps.  I'm totally satisfied that A/Fs are correct for my usage. BTW - running 6 pounds of  boost on a 10:1 compression ratio engine  has an effective boost rate of 10 pounds of boost on a 8:1 engine like that found on a VR4  Appreciate your input. >>>Murray 94 3000GT SL Supercharged        ----- Original Message ---- From: Matt Jannusch <<a href="mailto:mjannusch@gmail.com>">mjannusch@gmail.com&gt</a>; To: <a href="mailto:murraybruns@yahoo.com">murraybruns@yahoo.com</a> Sent: Wed, March 10, 2010 2:32:42 PM Subject: [Team3S] Re: Supercharging a NA DOHC > If stoich is considered a f/a ratio of 12.5 and 14.5,  I would say that under > acceleration I run around little less than 12 and cruise a little below 14. > Obviously the A/F is changing constantly but I would say those numbers > are fairly representative. The definition of stoichiometric for gasoline is 14.7:1.  You should be around there during light load cruise, and around 11.5-11.8:1 while under heavy load (boost). -Matt '95 3000GT Spyder VR4 '93 3000GT VR4

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Re: Supercharging a NA DOHC

Wed, 10 Mar 2010 20:43:00 GMT

When you put the new headers on Murray, You should get it made with bungs for EGT sensors (Exhaust Gas Temperature) on both sides, get the EGT setup with built in ignition cutoff. You CANT go wrong that way & fry your engine. $300 to protect $6000. Headers tend to lean out fuel mix. EGT sensors don't care WHY it went lean (too hot) they just shut it down right now before the damage is done. Tweak A/F & run again. Pete Rivenburg <a href="mailto:Privenburg@firstam.com">Privenburg@firstam.com</a> -----Original Message----- From: Murray Bruns [<a href="mailto:murraybruns@yahoo.com">mailto:murraybruns@yahoo.com</a>] Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 1:17 PM To: Rivenburg, Pete Subject: [Team3S] Re: Supercharging a NA DOHC Matt, I have research fuel ratios to great length for supercharged applications such as mine and according to the engineers I'm in the sweet spot for a non racing application.  Maybe for turbos running under a racing condition 8;1 is correct I don't know but from what I've read in the last few hours 8:1 is extremetly rich. My motor pulls very very hard, doesn't miss a beat, no black smoke, no unusual engine temps.  I'm totally satisfied that A/Fs are correct for my usage. BTW - running 6 pounds of  boost on a 10:1 compression ratio engine  has an effective boost rate of 10 pounds of boost on a 8:1 engine like that found on a VR4  Appreciate your input. >>>Murray 94 3000GT SL Supercharged        ----- Original Message ---- From: Matt Jannusch <<a href="mailto:mjannusch@gmail.com>">mjannusch@gmail.com&gt</a>; To: <a href="mailto:murraybruns@yahoo.com">murraybruns@yahoo.com</a> Sent: Wed, March 10, 2010 2:32:42 PM Subject: [Team3S] Re: Supercharging a NA DOHC > If stoich is considered a f/a ratio of 12.5 and 14.5,  I would say that under > acceleration I run around little less than 12 and cruise a little below 14. > Obviously the A/F is changing constantly but I would say those numbers > are fairly representative. The definition of stoichiometric for gasoline is 14.7:1.  You should be around there during light load cruise, and around 11.5-11.8:1 while under heavy load (boost). -Matt '95 3000GT Spyder VR4 '93 3000GT VR4

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Re: Supercharging a NA DOHC

Wed, 10 Mar 2010 20:18:00 GMT

Matt, I have research fuel ratios to great length for supercharged applications such as mine and according to the engineers I'm in the sweet spot for a non racing application.  Maybe for turbos running under a racing condition 8;1 is correct I don't know but from what I've read in the last few hours 8:1 is extremetly rich. My motor pulls very very hard, doesn't miss a beat, no black smoke, no unusual engine temps.  I'm totally satisfied that A/Fs are correct for my usage. BTW - running 6 pounds of  boost on a 10:1 compression ratio engine  has an effective boost rate of 10 pounds of boost on a 8:1 engine like that found on a VR4  Appreciate your input. >>>Murray 94 3000GT SL Supercharged        ----- Original Message ---- From: Matt Jannusch <<a href="mailto:mjannusch@gmail.com>">mjannusch@gmail.com&gt</a>; To: <a href="mailto:murraybruns@yahoo.com">murraybruns@yahoo.com</a> Sent: Wed, March 10, 2010 2:32:42 PM Subject: [Team3S] Re: Supercharging a NA DOHC > If stoich is considered a f/a ratio of 12.5 and 14.5,  I would say that under > acceleration I run around little less than 12 and cruise a little below 14. > Obviously the A/F is changing constantly but I would say those numbers > are fairly representative. The definition of stoichiometric for gasoline is 14.7:1.  You should be around there during light load cruise, and around 11.5-11.8:1 while under heavy load (boost). -Matt '95 3000GT Spyder VR4 '93 3000GT VR4

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Re: Supercharging a NA DOHC

Wed, 10 Mar 2010 19:33:00 GMT

> If stoich is considered a f/a ratio of 12.5 and 14.5,  I would say that under > acceleration I run around little less than 12 and cruise a little below 14. > Obviously the A/F is changing constantly but I would say those numbers > are fairly representative. The definition of stoichiometric for gasoline is 14.7:1. You should be around there during light load cruise, and around 11.5-11.8:1 while under heavy load (boost). -Matt '95 3000GT Spyder VR4 '93 3000GT VR4

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Re: Supercharging a NA DOHC

Wed, 10 Mar 2010 19:19:00 GMT

Matt, I used a kit and a little imagination.  I'm not much of a motorhead or wrencher but I found that everything was well within my capabilities.  If stoich is considered a f/a ratio of 12.5 and 14.5,  I would say that under acceleration I run around little less than 12 and cruise a little below 14.  Obviously the A/F is changing constantly but I would say those numbers are fairly representative.  Clarify, hold or surpass a very well tuned VR4. Once the headers and exhaust system is installed, necessary in preparing for water/meth injection,  I'll have it dyno tested.  I'm shooting for 290 at the wheels or about 365 at the flywheel which should keep the GT well behaved and streetable. >>>Murray      ----- Original Message ---- From: Matt Jannusch <<a href="mailto:mjannusch@gmail.com>">mjannusch@gmail.com&gt</a>; To: <a href="mailto:murraybruns@yahoo.com">murraybruns@yahoo.com</a> Sent: Wed, March 10, 2010 12:44:08 PM Subject: [Team3S] Re: Supercharging a NA DOHC > To cut to the chase I supercharged my 1994 SL early this year > and am presently running a very well behaved DOHC engine at > 6 pounds of boost.  Engine runs very smoothly, starts easily, with > instantaneous throttle response and never runs out of air.  Air/fuel > reading reports stoich with never a lean condition. Did you end up using a kit, or did you put it together yourself?  I hope it is stoich only while cruising - while under boost you want it richer than that if you want to get longevity out of the pistons. > Car now has some real teeth and can hold its own with any VR4 I'm guessing you meant "stock VR4" there...  ;-) Congrats on a successful project! -Matt '95 3000GT Spyder VR4 '93 3000GT VR4

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Re: Supercharging a NA DOHC

Wed, 10 Mar 2010 17:45:00 GMT

> To cut to the chase I supercharged my 1994 SL early this year > and am presently running a very well behaved DOHC engine at > 6 pounds of boost.  Engine runs very smoothly, starts easily, with > instantaneous throttle response and never runs out of air.  Air/fuel > reading reports stoich with never a lean condition. Did you end up using a kit, or did you put it together yourself? I hope it is stoich only while cruising - while under boost you want it richer than that if you want to get longevity out of the pistons. > Car now has some real teeth and can hold its own with any VR4 I'm guessing you meant "stock VR4" there... ;-) Congrats on a successful project! -Matt '95 3000GT Spyder VR4 '93 3000GT VR4

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Supercharging a NA DOHC

Wed, 10 Mar 2010 17:24:00 GMT

Last October I wrote wanting to know whether there were any Team3S members that hadÂ experiences with Supercharging an NA engine.Â  Boy did I get an earful!Â  Nearly 9 out of 10 responses berated my query telling me that it can't be done or those that tried failed and/or screwed up their engines, or had so many problems they reverted back to their NA or hung turbos instead.Â  I was demonized for even thinking outside the turbo charging box.Â  Most suggested that if I want real performance dump my SL and buy a VR4.Â  Thanks to theseÂ  nay sayers, it intensified my desire to supercharge my 3000.Â  To cut to the chase I supercharged my 1994 SL early this year and am presently running a very well behaved DOHC engine at 6 pounds of boost.Â  Engine runs very smoothly, starts easily, with instantaneous throttle response and never runs out of air.Â  Air/fuel reading reports stoich with never a lean condition.Â  Engine maintains good vacuum for brakes and accessories.Â  Car now has some real teeth and can hold its own with any VR4 but I have to admit my SL has a distinct advantage â Although Iâm producing about the sameÂ HP as a VR4 itâs 400 lbs lighter! Â I enjoy the fact that I have something very unique and love the additional power, no lag, and that Root's whine.Â Â Â  If any NA owners are interested in supercharging their 3000 or Stealth write me at <a href="mailto:re.route@newwavecomm.net">re.route@newwavecomm.net</a> as I know a prolonged thread on this subject will be bombarded by the same nay sayers that lectured me last year.Â Â Â Â

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Re: Gear grinding

Tue, 09 Mar 2010 15:07:00 GMT

Correct. When the adjustment isnt right the clutch release affects how well the car can shift. -SP --- On Mon, 3/8/10, sergey polstyanko <<a href="mailto:sergey@ansoft.com>">sergey@ansoft.com&gt</a>; wrote: > What did you adjust in the master cylinder? I am assuming > you are not refereeing to the clutch pedal adjustment, > right? > > Thanks, >    Sergey

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